Collagen more or less as we age

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DanH
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:29 am

Collagen more or less as we age

Post by DanH »

Good Morning Bernie,
In your book YogaSights you state the body produces more Collagen as we age, which is opposite of what I have always heard and read. My wife takes Collagen Protein supplement with the understanding as she ages her body is producing less Collagen. Confused and curious, I could be reading this all wrong and would like clarification. Also is there different results from research done between males and females as they age?
Please advise and discuss...
Cheers,
Daniel
DanH
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:29 am

Collagen more or less as we age

Post by DanH »

"Collagen can also strengthen your joints, increasing their resilience to injury and pain. Several studies have found that taking hydrolyzed collagen decreases joint pain [6,7] and increases the density of your cartilage, making your joints more flexible [7]. This becomes important as you age because your body starts producing less collagen."
Dave Aspery
Bernie
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:25 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by Bernie »

I am not sure what sentence(s) you may be referring to in YinSights (surprisingly, I know, I have not memorized the whole book!) Can you tell me where you saw a statement from me that says collagen increases as we age?

In general, think of collagen like us old men think of hair: as we age, we get less hair where we want it and more where we don't want it. Wrinkles in the skin show a lack of collagen there, but muscles as they age get more and more: instead of muscles cells which give us strength, the cells are replaced with stiff collagen and fat cells. This is called atrophy.

Health is a balance between creating new tissues and resorbing old, worn out tissues. As we age, that balance is thrown out of whack. We don't produces as much collagen in the places we need it, and it is resorbed too slowly in places we don't need it.

Sigh...welcome to aging!
Cheers
Bernie
DanH
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:29 am

collagen more or less as we age

Post by DanH »

good evening bernie,
YinSights chapter, "Changes in our Muscles as We Age," i would have sent page number but i'm on kindle with no page numbers.
it says exactly what you just said referring to muscle.
we must be confused,when and if you have time take a look at this
https://outlook.live.com/owa/?fid=flinb ... l/inbox/rp
i think we may be mixing everything up
just trying to get a basic understanding
cheers
danie;
DanH
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:29 am

collagen more or less as we age

Post by DanH »

Bernie
Posts: 1293
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:25 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by Bernie »

That link is behind a sign uo page, so I can't read it, but regardless...it has been over 10 years since I researched this area and don't have the time right now to go back and review everything from those days. My understanding is this:

Collagen is essential to health. We need it everywhere: in the muscles, tendons, fascia, etc. Yes, as we age, we have less of it. We have fewer fibroblasts and those we still have are less active at producing collagen. So, we should do all we can to keep producing collagen. I think we are in agreement there.

However, our muscles, through dis-use, atrophy. The collagen that is laid down in the muscles is no longer structured as it was, and it forms matted tangles that reduce mobility and can create adhesions. This random deposition of collagen decreases the muscles tensile strength. As we age, we also lose water in the ECM, which leads to more cross links in the collagen which again leads to a lack of gliding ability.

You seem to be focused on a lack of "good collagen" which I agree we do have less of. I am referring to an excess of "bad collagen" which starts to replace the bulk of the muscles, along with fat cells. We may look like we have similar muscle bulk, but that is now more and more fat and matted collagen fibers.

Regardless, we still need collagen! What your wife is doing seems logical. But, she still needs to do resistance training to make sure the muscles is being rebuilt with the collagen all in its proper places.

Cheers
Bernie
Bernie
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:25 am
Location: Vancouver

Post by Bernie »

I did find one research article that may help you understand how the muscle becomes more fibrotic with age. It states "aging is associated with loss of skeletal-muscle mass and function with concomitant fibrosis and ECM deposition. Age-associated muscle loss (sarcopenia) causes and/or exacerbates age-related health problems. Therefore, understanding the processes involved is important not only for unraveling the mechanisms of fibrosis, but also for improving quality of life and healthcare for the older person. Sarcopenia seems to occur by mechanisms that partly are unique to it, and partly are common to other forms of atrophy. Some of these may involve changes in soluble effectors, such as altered hormone status, inflammatory factors, and altered caloric and protein intake, perhaps triggered by modifications or decline in the central and peripheral nervous systems. The net consequence of these alterations firstly involves progressive atrophy and loss of individual muscle fibers, associated with concomitant loss of motor units [7]. In addition, there is infiltration of fat and other non-contractile material, which causes a reduction in muscle 'quality' [8]. At the ultrastructural level, aging has also been associated with myofibril disarrangements in a dystrophic animal model, and drops in force without alterations in motor protein function as measured by in vitro motility assays [9]. Additional factors associated with DMD and age-associated fibrosis are discussed in further detail below."

There is a good visual to show this. The article is Aberrant repair and fibrosis development in skeletal muscle
DanH
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:29 am

Collagen more or less as we age

Post by DanH »

Think I got it
As always, you're a prince
Cheers
DanH
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:29 am

Collagen more or less as we age!

Post by DanH »

Once again, my wife and I thank you for taking the time to answer in such a deep and thorough fashion. How the hell did you learn much? Damn...impressive 😕
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