Types of Stretching, Fascia, and Yin

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toaster
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Types of Stretching, Fascia, and Yin

Post by toaster »

I went to a yoga anatomy training this past weekend. While I really liked it overall, I walked away confused about where yin fits in with the information I received.

First, she talked about two types of stretch:
1) Passive - no muscle engagement
2) Actively loaded - joints stable, muscles engaged

This was my first point of confusion - where does yin fit? My understanding of yin is that the muscles are not engaged, but it still is an active (loaded) stretch in the target area. I tried to ask the instructor about this, but she wasn't that familiar with yin, and maybe I didn't explain it well.

The second part of this was that she said there are 4 different types of fascia around skeletal muscles:
1) Serial
2) Transverse
3) Parallel
4) Extra-muscular

She noted that passive stretching only targets two of the four but actively loaded stretching targets three of four. (I'm sorry, I don't recall which ones for each scenario.) So her conclusion was that active stretching is more efficient because it targets more of the fascia. Again, I'm wondering where yin fits in here.

I've tried to search for the things discussed online but haven't been able to come up with anything. Bernie, can you add any clarity? Sometimes I feel the more I know, the less I understand! :?
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Bernie
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Re: Types of Stretching, Fascia, and Yin

Post by Bernie »

First, let’s make sure we define yin appropriately in this context. Yin Yoga practices involve long-held, static stresses which are passive. By passive, we mean that we are not engaging muscles to create the stress but using the posture (and the body’s weight or sand bags) to generate the stresses. Now, passive does not mean “no stress” just as active does not mean “stress”. Stress is created in yin and yang forms of yoga; it is just that in yin yoga, the muscles are not engaged, but stress still occurs. In the active styles, larger force may be generated than in the passive styles, but not necessarily. Passive Dangling Pose, for example, can create a large amount of stress along the fascia in the back body even though we are not actively contracting the anterior muscle groups.

In addition to the above point, I don’t see where your instructor would include compressive stresses or loads. Would she say these are active or passive? I don’t think it really matters, what matters is that some postures generate compressive loads, where bones and cartilage are stressed appropriately. Whether this happens through active loading or passive loading is again not the issue. Both forms of practice can create compressive loads.

Second, I don’t agree that these are for “different types” of fascia. This confuses “location” with “type”. There are three normally defined envelopes of fascia around and within a muscle: the epimysium, perimysium and endomysium. These layers are continuous and are not different types of fascia. They merge together and become the tendon, which in turn becomes the periosteum of the bone, which is turn becomes the internal fascial scaffold of the bone. The epimysium, perimysium and endomysium can be considered in parrallel to each other but in series with tendons and ligaments. All of these fascial layers are in turn in parallel to the joint capsules of any joint that they help to articulate.

My article “A Yin Yoga Perspecting on Serial and Parallel Tissues” will help to explain the above points. I suggest you refer to it. I am not sure what she means by “parallel” and “extra-muscular”. Perhaps she is refering to the transverse fascia that holds the muscles cells together. It is true that when muscles are in concentric contraction, they grow wider (think of bulging biceps) and that fascia is stressed, however, other forms of active muscular engagement, like eccentric contraction, does not “bulge” the muscles.

What does your teacher mean by “efficient”? I would agree that active stretching will affect the tissues she mentioned. However, so does passive stretching. Passive stretches do affect the “extra-muscular” fascia, although I am not sure what she really means by that term.

In my mind, it is all good. I think it is fruitless to argue that one form is “better” than another form of practice. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. Why not do all of them? Active practices cannot be held very long, and thus the fascia cannot undergo full relaxation. Also, if the muscles are active, the joint capsules are never stressed because the muscles contract the joint. Passive practices allow the joint to relax and undergo traction. The nature of the water in the fascia can change from gel to sol state when under a long-held traction. I could go on and on. There are a lot of benefits to the tissues (muscles, fascia, joints, etc.) to passive stresses.

I hope this helps
Cheers
Bernie
toaster
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Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:48 am
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Re: Types of Stretching, Fascia, and Yin

Post by toaster »

First, let’s make sure we define yin appropriately in this context. Yin Yoga practices involve long-held, static stresses which are passive. By passive, we mean that we are not engaging muscles to create the stress but using the posture (and the body’s weight or sand bags) to generate the stresses. Now, passive does not mean “no stress” just as active does not mean “stress”. Stress is created in yin and yang forms of yoga; it is just that in yin yoga, the muscles are not engaged, but stress still occurs. In the active styles, larger force may be generated than in the passive styles, but not necessarily. Passive Dangling Pose, for example, can create a large amount of stress along the fascia in the back body even though we are not actively contracting the anterior muscle groups.
Bernie, thank you so much for this long, thoughtful reply!

This first paragraph was particularly helpful to me. I definitely think I was confusing "stress" with "active." I appreciate the reminder that yin IS passive stretching. I'm not sure what my instructor would would say about compressive stresses.

Before I go on, I should mention that some of the things I said might be my own words/mistakes, not those of the instructor - I was asking questions based on my own notes.

That being said, I am pretty sure that she referred to the classifications I listed as different types fascia. But I was unable to find her defined categories when I did a Google search, so I'm not surprised to hear you say that those distinctions don't really make sense. Maybe she was making a different point than my takeaway. I also am not sure if she used the word "efficient," but I do know that what she was saying was that passive stretching hit 2/4 targets (as defined by her list), whereas active stretching hit 3/4. She did say that both types of stretching were useful, but the overall message is if you could target 3/4 vs. 2/4, why wouldn't you do the former? I wish more of my prior yin training had kicked so that I could have responded to her as you did in the last paragraph!

Thank you also for the link to the article. I've opened it and will read it. Just glancing at the headings, in sounds right on point. I need to find time to really focus on it though. I have to admit that I find some of your articles quite challenging - not based on your writing itself, which is always excellent and very accessible, but because I am not a science person (psychologist first, yoga teacher second), and my mid-50s brain likes to shut down when I try to comprehend some of these concepts. (Although just typing that, I realize Bernie that you are older than me, so I can't really use age as my excuse. :oops: )
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Bernie
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Re: Types of Stretching, Fascia, and Yin

Post by Bernie »

You are welcome. Just to be complete, there certainly are different kinds of fascia. A committee in 2019 came up with this definition [from Schleip R Hedley G, YucesoyCA. Fascial Nomenclature: Update on Related Consensus Process. Clinical Anatomy32:929–933 (2019). ]:

1.A fascia is a sheath, a sheet, or any other dissectible aggregations of connective tissue that forms beneath the skin to attach, enclose, and separate muscles and other internal organs.
2.The fascial system consists of the three-dimensional continuum of soft, collagen containing, loose and dense fibrous connective tissues that permeate the body.


Robert Schleip has reported that our perimysium has far more free nerve endings (which report on pain) than the epimysium has. So, there are differences, but I don’t think there are significant differences in the three layers of fascia enveloping and investing the muscles.

And, again, I don’t agree that yin yoga passive stress only affect two of the four tissues she defined. I think it can affect the serial, parallel and extra-muscular fascia.

Cheers!
toaster
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Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:48 am
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Re: Types of Stretching, Fascia, and Yin

Post by toaster »

Thank you for this clarification. The instructor I went to did talk about the different layers of connective tissue, although she simply called them superficial, middle, and deep. Looking back at my notes, some of her references included Tom Myers and Neil Thiese.

I did read your article, and although the subject matter is challenging for me, I think I understand a few things better.
Traditionally, ligaments are considered to be a form of fascia that connects bones to bones, while tendons are fascial tissues that connect muscles to bone.
Based on this line from the second paragraph, if ligaments are "a form of fascia" and tendons are "fascial tissues", is it then correct to say that both ligaments and tendons are fascia? (Forgive me if this is obvious!)
In short we have the following relationships:
*When muscles are cool, engaged or contracted more stress will be shared with serial tissues like the tendons, but less stress will reach the parallel tissues like ligaments and joint capsules.
*When muscles are warm, relaxed or elongated less stress will be shared with serial tissues like the tendons, but more stress will reach the parallel tissues like ligaments and joint capsules.
It seems like this information is what led to your concluding paragraph (including your favorite line, "it depends"). We generally do yin when the muscles are cool, so we are stressing/targeting tendons (and other fascial tissue?). But we can choose to do yin when the muscles are warm, in which case we will be more targeting/stressing ligaments and joint capsules.

I hope I am close to getting things right!
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Bernie
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Re: Types of Stretching, Fascia, and Yin

Post by Bernie »

Yes, today we include ligaments, tendons, and joint capsules as being fascial tissues. There are even some researchers who want to include bones as fascia. It is a fast changing field!

While we generally say "ligaments join bone to bone and tendons join muscle to bone" Jaap has determined that ligaments also join muscle to bone. When this is the case, both those type of ligaments and the muscle's tendons are in series with the muscles, so engaging the muscle or keeping the muscles cool (ie when the muscles are tighter) more stress will soak into the serial tissues. If we are targeting the parallel tissues, such as parallel ligaments and joint capsules, relaxing the muscles or letting them become warmer (ie when the muscles are looser), more stress will soak into the parallel tissues. That is the point of the article.
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